Sub connections

[henry]

Ed has always insisted that subwoofers best integrate with main speakers when coupled through the speaker level inputs.  I agree.

I found this quote from REL (a very good subwoofer vendor) and I think it concisely explains why the less elegant speaker-level input integrates better than taking a line-level from the preamp section of your system.

2) RELs use a high-level input, also called a speaker-level input. This means that they connect to the speaker output terminals on your amp, and share the same signal and are subject to the same damping factor and timing as your loudspeakers. Don't worry, they don't add to the load on the amp--they just see the signal.

It DOES matter and is worth the hassle of a few extra wires.  Also, oftentimes taking a second line-level signal from the preamp affects the preamp's sound.

Try it and see if you haven't done so. 

[Capt. Z]

Many years ago I read that taking the signal from the speaker side you get more of the sound of the amp, which is what the speakers get, so you have a better match.

[Luddite]

Try it and see if you haven't done so. 

I wish I could, Henry. The output of my First Watt F1J floats DC, so using its speaker outs is out. I actually forgot once, many years ago, and hooked the Dayton sub amp I was using at the time, up to the F1J outputs. A little plume of white smoke out of the Dayton quickly reminded me. Luckily I caught it in time. A resistor in the Dayton amp got hot, but no permanent damage done. Ed later reminded me on the old forum, "You can't do that!"

When I use any of my tube amps, I'm able to follow your advice, and run the output of the tube amp into the Crown XLS 2002 RCA inputs, and it works great.

I've tried using a Y adapter on my Truth's RCA outs to run the First Watt and Crown in parallel. That creates a 5K ohm load for the Truth to drive, which should be no problem for it. But I seem to remember some sort of out of phase issue occurring (using a Stereophile test CD). It may have something to do with the fact that I'm running the Crown in bridged mono, but I'm not sure, and Crown never replied to my email. Ed said to call him, and I did, but we didn't connect for some reason. I went back to using my First Watt without a sub, but luckily the bass is so solid with that amp that I don't miss the subwoofer.

Thanks for the reminder, because I have all the "fixins" for a pair of Ed's bucket subs here, and need to talk to Ed to see what his suggestions are.

[henry]

Yep Luddite, I forgot that First Watt situation.  It is good that the FW amps make good bass with wide-range speakers.  I'd have a collection of those things if I could.

[Luddite]

Yes, that's the saving grace of my F1J, is that it allows the Horns to produce enough bass so that i don't often long for a sub with it.

In fact, the first time I ever went to Ed's to hear the Horns, he happened to have an F1 amp. he stuffed rolled up towels into the Horns bottoms when he connected it. I do the same, except I use a wad of Polyfil in each speaker. There's been times I've forgotten, put one of my tube amps into the system, and wondered what the hell was wrong with the system. After a couple of tracks, I remember, remove the Polyfill, and the Horns sound like themselves again.

I'd love to hear some of the other First Watt offerings sometime.

[henry]

One other thing to mention, I recently learned that a few of the higher-end tube amps are taking the line-out signals from the output transformers.  So, they offer a simpler solution.  Full range signals are supplied to your powered subs after being processed by, and incorporate the character of the main amp.

That's some validation for speaker-level inputs sounding more coherent and better.